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invincible1 97 ( +1 | -1 )
Sicilian Najdorf question: In the main line :

1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 d6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 Nf6 5.Nc3 a6 6.Bg5 e6 7.f4 Nb-d7 8.Qf3 Qc7 9.O-O-O b5 10.Bd3 Bb7 11.Rh-e1 Be7 12.Qg3 b4 13.Nd5 exd5 14.e5 dxe5 15.fxe5 Nh5 16.e6 Nxg3 17.exf7+ Kxf7 18.Rxe7+ Kg8 19.hxg3

And here I always thought the forced continuation for both sides was : 19....Qxg3 20. Ne6 Qe5 21. Rf1 Nf8 22. Bf5 Bc8 23. Re8 Kf7 24. Re7+ Kg8 1/2 - 1/2. I all along believed that any side to deviate from the 19th move would lose! However, recently, harpov played 19.....h6!? and crushed me!!! Well there is a difference of rating between him and me ;-), however, I still was really surprised and shocked by his move and even more so when I could not even draw let alone win! I searched in some online database but did not find his novelty 19....h6 anywhere!!!

Have any of you encountered this move before? What is the correct way for white to respond?? My game with him continued : 19.hxg3 h6 20.Bf4 Qd8 21.Rd-e1 Nc5 22.Bg6 Qf8 23.Nf5 Bc8 24.Nxg7 Ne4 and soon I lost control and was routed!!!

Any reply will be appreciated :-).


alberlie 9 ( +1 | -1 )
how about 24) Rxg7+ 25) Qxg7 Nxg7 26) Kxg7 27) Be5+ ?

but I didn*t find 19) ... h6 in my dbase either...
ccmcacollister 121 ( +1 | -1 )
Hope the board is set up right, as ... I've been up all night. But if it IS :) Then looks like:
alberlie ... after your 27.Be5+ it looks like 27... KxBg6 28.BxRh8 etc is good for Black.
invincible1 ... I noticed that instead of 20.Bf4 you could have still continued with 20.Ne6 instead, as in the mainline and your Bg5 is poison on move 21. So forces his 21.Qe5 as in the mainline to guard g7 without having gotten in Qxg3 first. Maybe there's something in that line for you?
Also looking at 20.Rde1 but although 20...hxg5 loses to Ne6, 20...Qxg3 looks harder to meet here since 21.Nf5 QxBg5 gives BL enough for his Queen if Rxg7 follows. WT would win lines where BL tries 20...Qd6 21.Nf5 since 21...Qc6 would drop the Q back cheaply, or 21...Qg6 22.Nxh6+ WT comes out ahead materially tho BL has some insufficient activity. But Looks likes trouble may find WT also, if BL goes with 20...Qd8 {21.Ne6 Qxe7 gives BL enough} 21.Nf5 seems to fall short. But 21.Bf5 stops ...hxg5 or 22.Be6+.
Too tired to continue looking right now, but do want to say thanks for showing this interesting line ... It will give me an enjoyable Week , looking at it~! }8-)
Regards, Craig
magna68 69 ( +1 | -1 )
19. ..h6 scratch,scratch 25. ..Re8+! Firstly, I think the whole variant is rather shaky for white, pretty bold to play this against plus 2300 player like harpov! Remember to have seen 19. ..h6 somewhere, but didn't find either in any databases. 24.Nxg7 looses of course immediately and alberlie was on a right track with the 24.Rxg7, but after Qxg7 then I think 25. Re8+! saves the game for you. After 25. ...Qf8, 26. RxQ KxR then 27.Bd6+ Kg8 28.Ne7+ Kg7 29.Be5+ Kf8 30.Nxc8 Rxc8 31.Bxh8 you have the bishop pair plus pawn for R and N. Think white can hold this position. .... But then again, looks all little bit shaky on the white side to go down this road starting with 13.Nd5. :-)
ccmcacollister 60 ( +1 | -1 )
invincible1 Looking further into the actual game continuation, if my eyes don't deceive me (as they have been doing enough while looking at this game!)
then a WT win was overlooked. On move 23... Instead of your 23.Nxg7 just 23.Re8 looks like a win since WT threatens both 24.RxQf8+ Kxf8 25.Re8++# and immediate mate by 24.Ne7++# ... a delightful Knight Mate that's almost a "smoohered' mate. (Tho purists say the King must be surrounded by his own pieces, according to sources in the "smothered mates" thread.:). And 23...QxRe8 24.Rxe8++# .
So of course the dual mate threats on different squares cant be countered.
ccmcacollister 11 ( +1 | -1 )
Oops, forgot to put the board # for this game is board #2268902
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ccmcacollister 6 ( +1 | -1 )
That should be ... I meant to say after 23....Bc8 then 24.Re8 threatening 25.Ne7++# or 25.Rxf8+ both ... etc.
invincible1 173 ( +1 | -1 )
everyone Thanks a lot for the replies!
CCMC, thanks for all your messages. As for your last message suggesting 24.Re8, I think black defends both mate threats and wins after 24....Bxf5. BTW, how do you figure out the board number?? I have never known how to figure that out!

magna68, thanks for your line. The funny thing is, I actualyl had analysed this line (as far as i remember) during the game! And somehow, even though I saw black has the bishop pair, I felt that I will lose eventually since he does have the h6 pawn still alive! However maybe it was drawable indeed. Yups, Nxg7 loses immediately indeed.. wonder what I was thinking.. I just "felt
that Rxg7 (and this line) wasn't good, so I just threw in Nxg7 hoping for the 2300 player to goof up, lol! Hey, but more than your analysis, I am more interested in your comment " I think the whole variant is rather shaky for white, pretty bold to play this against plus 2300 player like harpov! ". What exactly does it take to beat you guys ;-)!? I have drawn many 2000+ players on this site, including my other game against harpov. However, beating any 2000+ player here seems very hard!! You suggest that may be it wasn't a good idea to play a shaky line against a top player. But I have always felt that, if I have to beat some so strong player, I have to find some line with too many complications even if dubious; my thinking is that in a regular routine game, I'll get crushed by superior planning skills of the 2300 opponent!
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magna68 216 ( +1 | -1 )
Bold play. Regarding how to beat stronger players, I don't think the correct way is to choose too much complications or dubious lines. It might be the case over the table with good preparation and if you know your opponent and which lines he prefer. Something "homecooked" might then just work. But waiting to have the opportunity to "serve the meal" is often just a plain frustration. Most players choose the other approach, playing something solid, exchanging material when possible and trying to keep the "status quo". After all it's the stronger player that isn't happy with the draw, so in the end it's him that will have to go for complications or dubious continuations in search for the win. Then he might "goof up"! :-) Why should the less strong player risk that?
Talking about the sicilian then I think it's often just sucidal to let the stronger opponent have the opportunity to get into the razor sharp lines of the Najdorf. The massive theory existing about f.e the 6. Bg5 lines often makes the less stronger player "go down in flames" pretty quickly, one slip and you are blown off the table. And be sure of it, strong players (ala harpov) know those lines very well, and even more importantly the plans involved. Probably the two volume of "The complete Najdorf" by Nunn are then resting on the table next to him! :-)
Playing the "english attack" against the Najdorf is likely more advisable rather than Bg5. It's "easier" to play (even though it's very sharp) and that explains its popularity. But best is probably just to play some of the anti-sicilian lines. They are almost all rock solid and can make your stronger opponent get pretty frustrated quickly! I for myself love the Najdorf (as you can see from my ongoing Najdorf mini tournament) and just hate when I get 2. c3, 3. c3 or 3. Bb5+ in the face from less strong players.
Playing the solid lines might not be the most fun always, but in my mind they are more likely to be fruitful against stronger player than complications and blurry lines. And its your opponent that will have to dig much deeper and often take the risk.
ccmcacollister 49 ( +1 | -1 )
OOPs your right I got to thinking of the Bc8 in purely defensive terms, as preventing Rxb7. Anyway
I meant to say 24Rxg7 Qxg7 25.Re8+ Qf8 26.Ne7+ Kg7 27.Be5 ++# mate }8-) -grin
Its a little longer but nicer anyway.
there are several ways to get the board # I think but the only one I'm remembering right now is look up at your http when you go to the board. Um, oh yeah another is it should show up while the game is ongoing by clicking into that function where you can delay the showing of your game up to 5 move. I think it shows there too.
ccmcacollister 21 ( +1 | -1 )
oh no. The Q goes to f6 so close. No mate. I gotta start using the analyze board function! On second thought better stop playing chess now. Well anyways you can find your game # now. Regards! and Bye.
bogg 15 ( +1 | -1 )
Craig I think you are on the right path. 24. Rg7:+ Qg7: 25. Re8+ Qf8 26. Rf8:+ Kf8: 27. Bd6+ Kg8 28. Ne7+ Kg7 29. Be5+ Kf8 30. Nc8: Rc8: (30. ... Rg8 31. Bd6+ Kg7 32. Ne7 Ne4 33. Be5+ Kf8 34. Ng8: Kg8: is similar.) 31. Bh8: and with two Bishops vs. a Rook and a Knight White has chances to hold. Analysis by Shredder, Assessment by CTC.

CTC (Bogg)
invincible1 38 ( +1 | -1 )
thanks all again Magna68, thanks for your suggestion! I shall certainly keep that in mind in my next games against top players here :-).

And thanks Craig and Bogg for your analysis. Bogg, your exact line was mentioned by Magna also above! Thanks to all. I guess the conclusion is I should try and think up of some other variation to play against the Najdorf!!
bogg 9 ( +1 | -1 )
oops Didn't read that one! When I see descriptive notation I quit reading.

CTC (Bogg)