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kingofpawns 64 ( +1 | -1 )
Program users I do not understand why people continue to delete
threads about program users at GK? gooftrooper
identified one, and his thread will soon be deleted.
Most people here are against program use, but are
unwillling to do anything about it. In most cases,
program use cannot be established beyond
reasonable doubt. But, when a player suddenly
jumps from pathetic to class A or higher, this is the
best evidence that can ever be offered.

So, I applaud gooftrooper from bringing this case
p8ntballjunky1 22 ( +1 | -1 )
yes, cheating is unstoppable, we will just have to cope with it and play the best that we intentions are to get good, losing to a cheater, big deal,losing in a fair game, big deal,all i am doing is getting better!
getoutofhere 78 ( +1 | -1 )
rubbish gooftrooper identified nothing. He insinuated that one
player was using a computer based on no better evidence
than that that person had improved a few hundred rating
points. A year ago I would struggle to beat players in the
1200 range, and lost games to simple combinations, but
recently I was able to beat a player in the high 1900s.
Does this fall outside your improvement limits? Should I
stop working on my game till kingofpawns decides that
enough time has passed that I am allowed to beat players
of his class? I didn't vote for the thread to be deleted, and
agree that discussion of program use is fine in the forums.
Unsubstantiated libel is not.
lightning_fighter 95 ( +1 | -1 )
Not so fast! In any website most of the good players are automatically thought to be programs. All these pathetic losers (people who makes judgement about others without knowing nothing about them), never belive that people can be very good as well! When they lose to someone the best way they find to attack their winning opponent is by calling them programs! They don't realise that humans can improve and they have the ability to be superiors! And you kingofpawns with your gooftrooper, how do you find out that someone is using a program? Just because they improve each day and their rating goes higher and higher? Huhn? Stop saying rubbish! You know nothing about them, so stop judging them blindly!
tonlesu 17 ( +1 | -1 )
programs Rapid improvemment is just one of the red flags of program use. Rapid improvement by itself means very little. Kingofpawns, I noticed you improved 300 pts. in rating in five months---May to Oct.

zdrak 87 ( +1 | -1 )
getoutofthere wrote:
"I didn't vote for the thread to be deleted, and
agree that discussion of program use is fine in the forums.
Unsubstantiated libel is not. "

I also agree with that. Unfortunately I haven't yet seen a single program-discussing-thread that didn't degenerate into unsubstatiated libel - and most of them even started out as unsubstatiated libel ....

And of course kingofpawns and his cohort of followers can always to be counted to be at the forefront of this - brandishing their torches and pitchforks, screaming "He made a few good moves in a row!! Kill, Kill Kill!!"

I refuse to be a member of a site where good players, players that improve, and players that play nice tactical combinations, are continuously persecuted. I hope all GK community will join me in condemning kingofpawns and his cohorts in the strognest terms. Remember, the next person to be slandered this way may be YOU!
peppe_l 70 ( +1 | -1 )
Its good That people discuss about computer cheating, however when someone is accused based on making progress, we are in dangerous territory. Dont forget its not just about improving ones playing skills. Correspondence chess is a lot about how hard one works. What if improving ones rating is about using more time for each move? Or about starting to use opening books and databases? To give an example I know an ICCF IM who plays here at GK, and his rating isnt even close to his real playing level. If he decides to use more time & effort for his moves some day, kingofpawns and gooftrooper will accuse him for computer cheating. Really nice.
gramario 57 ( +1 | -1 )
Censorship What I find disconcerting is that this deleting of threads (which indeed may be of interest to some, besides the ten privileged who vote to delete) amounts to nothing less than blatant censorship!


Counterintelligence achieved by banning or deleting any information of value to the enemy [syn: censoring, security review]

Source: The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Published by Houghton Mifflin Company.

Reading this it makes one wonder who the enemy are in these cases.
pure_statistics 69 ( +1 | -1 )
Gramario and others Don't you think it is shortsighted to mark a word that is not really adaptable to this discussion?

You could call it censorship while I could call it deletion of rubbish and unprooved accusations.

Kingofpawns raises good issues however there is a lot of accusations which he surely could refrain from.

I am certain there are program users here, there is always. Is there a way to tell? Is there really?

The discussion is valuable because maybe we can prevent some from using and maybe some with conscience will think twice but I will vote to delete every single thread that accuses people without real evidence.
gramario 11 ( +1 | -1 )
Marking what word? There are 50,000+ people susbcribed to this site. Should there be interests be decided by ten voters?
parrvert 14 ( +1 | -1 )
well the forum rules state no insults right? In my book being called a cheat is an insult and so unfounded accusations should not be allowed.
gramario 12 ( +1 | -1 )
lol Sorry. Terrible grammatical errors in the previous post, but I did have an excuse although I am not going to post what it was.
gooftrooper 107 ( +1 | -1 )
i never actually accused this person of cheating. Also if you had bothered to read the thread you would of found more than just one point against this player.

1. his rating went from around the 800's to the near 2000 in under a year.

2. he had 6 draws in a row against the same opponent, all about the same time, all lasting less than 10 moves!

3. he went from losing to 1100's often to beating 1600's often.

4. he was intrested from the begging entering many GK tournaments.

i can't renember the other points but there were plenty of them. please do not speak on my behalf and throw worthless accusations at me (don't say i did this- i had evidence, you don't). I am very annoyed at the moment so im going to cool of before i say something i regret.

before anyone says im jelous, i explained in the other thread that im not. I'm happy with my rating and beat this player twice before, when he was rated alot lower.

im sorry to those of you that aren't envolved, as you know i never get annoyed like this but some people.
gramario 11 ( +1 | -1 )
This is nothing. Hey. This is nothing to some of the stuff that you can read in the flames forum and which does NOT get deleted!
brobishkin 159 ( +1 | -1 )
I say... Let the pathetic program users create the worthless illusion of the chessmaster they really aren't... It's is both a waste of life time spent and a wothless commodity... But it does help me sharpen up my skills (better than looking around for a real sharp players, which are hard to find at times)... So I would like to actually thank the program users, but at the same time I am sad at the time they're wasting for themselves...

I have still no answer to date to the question of why they choose to do such a thing... What kind of thrill does a program user gain by creating such a worthless illusion?... Is just a thrill of being #1 on a Chess Site?... What do you say to you're friends?... "Look at me, I'm in the top 10 on Gameknot" when your friend replies "But you can't play chess that well" then you reply "The heck I can't" the your friend says "Lets sit down at the board and play a game"... What do you say then?... Or maybe you don't even mention it to your friends...

I wonder if any of the other members here would want to play in person?... Brunetti?... Edmaster?... Cairo?... I would be willing to travel, even to Europe which would be a vacation to me... Maybe that would put some brakes on the rummors here if some of us would meet in person... Like I've stated before... I have actually done this in the past and enjoyed some of the live games from other people on-line... I am still willing to met others here, any other buyers?...


Still hoping and waiting for an answer to his question about program users...
gramario 4 ( +1 | -1 )
Great post Let's see if any of the "experts" takes you up.
My money is on you.
getoutofhere 88 ( +1 | -1 )
sorry gooftrooper but I stand by what I said. I said that it was insinuated
that a player was cheating based on no better (not no
other) evidence than a rapid improvement. Why is having
a lot of short draws against a lower rated player evidence
of cheating? His rating didn't increase. Since when is
having an interest in entering tournaments evidence of
cheating? I did read the thread that you made, and
responded to that as well as to kingofpawns distortion
of it as an identification of a cheater. The reason I was
offended is that all of those points could have been used
against me if I had joined gameknot when I started playing
chess, and played all my games here. I hope to improve
more, and I hope that the fact that I do my improving in
front of people here on gameknot won't make it less
kingofpawns 152 ( +1 | -1 )
Hey... I don't mind the criticism of me. I consider it part of
free and open discussion. But as gramario has
pointed out, there are a few people on this site who
decide what others can read and write.

gooftrooper brought up a very interesting case.
A few weeks earlier a simlar point was made about
another person and I noticed that mike reduced her
rating from around 2000 to 1200.

Improvement isn't the issue. I have looked over
how my past opponents have improved and on
average they have improved from 100 to 300 points
since I played them. Just what I expected since
many were stronger than their rating, but were held
back by blunders here and there.

The person gooftrooper identified not only had
some very questionable games, which I think Mike
may adjust, but the key is to look at the knowledge
and playing ability of a player. That means actually
looking at the games not the ratings. When you see
someone playing at a novice level one week and
then the next playing class A or higher, something is
deeply wrong. No human in the history of chess has
ever improved that much in that short of time.

So, I'll continue to call it like I see it and I know
there are about 15 or 20 of you out there that don't
like it. So be it.

triangulator 33 ( +1 | -1 )
as I have said before prog users are just hurting themselves- and any 1300 here on GK could take them in a otb game. just give everyone the benifit of the dought- since you cant prove it- I do. I know some 1700 who can play just as well as a prog tactically but cant play positionally to save there lives